diff --git a/cereal b/cereal
index d6c3cf6b33..932c44c6bd 160000
--- a/cereal
+++ b/cereal
@@ -1 +1 @@
-Subproject commit d6c3cf6b33e699f82e5d78ae22c74cad978830b6
+Subproject commit 932c44c6bda17d7e19e1f58cd26442560a562696
diff --git a/opendbc b/opendbc
index eb56fff37a..004db342a8 160000
--- a/opendbc
+++ b/opendbc
@@ -1 +1 @@
-Subproject commit eb56fff37a4a2738df7add08779db51a0a6f38e2
+Subproject commit 004db342a825155f7bd03e7d08f3861e18b23795
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/body/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/body/interface.py
index 379e89f624..2b44200397 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/body/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/body/interface.py
@@ -37,13 +37,9 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
 
     return ret
 
-  def update(self, c, can_strings):
-    self.cp.update_strings(can_strings)
-
+  def _update(self, c):
     ret = self.CS.update(self.cp)
 
-    ret.canValid = self.cp.can_valid
-
     # wait for everything to init first
     if self.frame > int(5. / DT_CTRL):
       # body always wants to enable
@@ -52,8 +48,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
       ret.events[0].enable = True
     self.frame += 1
 
-    self.CS.out = ret.as_reader()
-    return self.CS.out
+    return ret
 
   def apply(self, c):
     return self.CC.update(c, self.CS)
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/chrysler/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/chrysler/interface.py
index 1bc34dff4d..7751bd151b 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/chrysler/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/chrysler/interface.py
@@ -47,16 +47,9 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return ret
 
   # returns a car.CarState
-  def update(self, c, can_strings):
-    # ******************* do can recv *******************
-    self.cp.update_strings(can_strings)
-    self.cp_cam.update_strings(can_strings)
-
+  def _update(self, c):
     ret = self.CS.update(self.cp, self.cp_cam)
 
-    ret.canValid = self.cp.can_valid and self.cp_cam.can_valid
-
-    # speeds
     ret.steeringRateLimited = self.CC.steer_rate_limited if self.CC is not None else False
 
     # events
@@ -67,10 +60,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
 
     ret.events = events.to_msg()
 
-    # copy back carState packet to CS
-    self.CS.out = ret.as_reader()
-
-    return self.CS.out
+    return ret
 
   # pass in a car.CarControl
   # to be called @ 100hz
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/ford/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/ford/interface.py
index 3b15f03c91..438c304882 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/ford/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/ford/interface.py
@@ -41,15 +41,9 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
 
     return ret
 
-  # returns a car.CarState
-  def update(self, c, can_strings):
-    # ******************* do can recv *******************
-    self.cp.update_strings(can_strings)
-
+  def _update(self, c):
     ret = self.CS.update(self.cp)
 
-    ret.canValid = self.cp.can_valid
-
     # events
     events = self.create_common_events(ret)
 
@@ -58,8 +52,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
 
     ret.events = events.to_msg()
 
-    self.CS.out = ret.as_reader()
-    return self.CS.out
+    return ret
 
   # pass in a car.CarControl
   # to be called @ 100hz
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/gm/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/gm/interface.py
index 5787dc5ae8..64ec9d4242 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/gm/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/gm/interface.py
@@ -155,13 +155,9 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return ret
 
   # returns a car.CarState
-  def update(self, c, can_strings):
-    self.cp.update_strings(can_strings)
-    self.cp_loopback.update_strings(can_strings)
-
+  def _update(self, c):
     ret = self.CS.update(self.cp, self.cp_loopback)
 
-    ret.canValid = self.cp.can_valid and self.cp_loopback.can_valid
     ret.steeringRateLimited = self.CC.steer_rate_limited if self.CC is not None else False
 
     buttonEvents = []
@@ -210,10 +206,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
 
     ret.events = events.to_msg()
 
-    # copy back carState packet to CS
-    self.CS.out = ret.as_reader()
-
-    return self.CS.out
+    return ret
 
   def apply(self, c):
     ret = self.CC.update(c, self.CS)
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/honda/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/honda/interface.py
index 8a23154bc9..265175d940 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/honda/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/honda/interface.py
@@ -328,17 +328,9 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
       disable_ecu(logcan, sendcan, bus=1, addr=0x18DAB0F1, com_cont_req=b'\x28\x83\x03')
 
   # returns a car.CarState
-  def update(self, c, can_strings):
-    # ******************* do can recv *******************
-    self.cp.update_strings(can_strings)
-    self.cp_cam.update_strings(can_strings)
-    if self.cp_body:
-      self.cp_body.update_strings(can_strings)
-
+  def _update(self, c):
     ret = self.CS.update(self.cp, self.cp_cam, self.cp_body)
 
-    ret.canValid = self.cp.can_valid and self.cp_cam.can_valid and (self.cp_body is None or self.cp_body.can_valid)
-
     buttonEvents = []
 
     if self.CS.cruise_buttons != self.CS.prev_cruise_buttons:
@@ -412,11 +404,9 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
 
     ret.events = events.to_msg()
 
-    self.CS.out = ret.as_reader()
-    return self.CS.out
+    return ret
 
   # pass in a car.CarControl
   # to be called @ 100hz
   def apply(self, c):
-    ret = self.CC.update(c, self.CS)
-    return ret
+    return self.CC.update(c, self.CS)
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/hyundai/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/hyundai/interface.py
index 4bb24ba4ea..ba74c23e47 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/hyundai/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/hyundai/interface.py
@@ -297,12 +297,8 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     if CP.openpilotLongitudinalControl:
       disable_ecu(logcan, sendcan, addr=0x7d0, com_cont_req=b'\x28\x83\x01')
 
-  def update(self, c, can_strings):
-    self.cp.update_strings(can_strings)
-    self.cp_cam.update_strings(can_strings)
-
+  def _update(self, c):
     ret = self.CS.update(self.cp, self.cp_cam)
-    ret.canValid = self.cp.can_valid and self.cp_cam.can_valid
     ret.steeringRateLimited = self.CC.steer_rate_limited if self.CC is not None else False
 
     events = self.create_common_events(ret, pcm_enable=self.CS.CP.pcmCruise)
@@ -352,8 +348,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
 
     ret.events = events.to_msg()
 
-    self.CS.out = ret.as_reader()
-    return self.CS.out
+    return ret
 
   def apply(self, c):
     ret = self.CC.update(c, self.CS)
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/interfaces.py b/selfdrive/car/interfaces.py
index ddf67e4d62..2d4b3416a4 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/interfaces.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/interfaces.py
@@ -33,12 +33,17 @@ class CarInterfaceBase(ABC):
     self.low_speed_alert = False
     self.silent_steer_warning = True
 
+    self.CS = None
+    self.can_parsers = []
     if CarState is not None:
       self.CS = CarState(CP)
+
       self.cp = self.CS.get_can_parser(CP)
       self.cp_cam = self.CS.get_cam_can_parser(CP)
+      self.cp_adas = self.CS.get_adas_can_parser(CP)
       self.cp_body = self.CS.get_body_can_parser(CP)
       self.cp_loopback = self.CS.get_loopback_can_parser(CP)
+      self.can_parsers = [self.cp, self.cp_cam, self.cp_adas, self.cp_body, self.cp_loopback]
 
     self.CC = None
     if CarController is not None:
@@ -100,9 +105,28 @@ class CarInterfaceBase(ABC):
     return ret
 
   @abstractmethod
-  def update(self, c: car.CarControl, can_strings: List[bytes]) -> car.CarState:
+  def _update(self, c: car.CarControl) -> car.CarState:
     pass
 
+  def update(self, c: car.CarControl, can_strings: List[bytes]) -> car.CarState:
+    # parse can
+    for cp in self.can_parsers:
+      if cp is not None:
+        cp.update_strings(can_strings)
+
+    # get CarState
+    ret = self._update(c)
+
+    ret.canValid = all(cp.can_valid for cp in self.can_parsers if cp is not None)
+    ret.canTimeout = any(cp.bus_timeout for cp in self.can_parsers if cp is not None)
+
+    # copy back for next iteration
+    reader = ret.as_reader()
+    if self.CS is not None:
+      self.CS.out = reader
+
+    return reader
+
   @abstractmethod
   def apply(self, c: car.CarControl) -> Tuple[car.CarControl.Actuators, List[bytes]]:
     pass
@@ -254,6 +278,10 @@ class CarStateBase(ABC):
   def get_cam_can_parser(CP):
     return None
 
+  @staticmethod
+  def get_adas_can_parser(CP):
+    return None
+
   @staticmethod
   def get_body_can_parser(CP):
     return None
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/mazda/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/mazda/interface.py
index b9a3d66ff2..0ef573c6b6 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/mazda/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/mazda/interface.py
@@ -75,13 +75,8 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return ret
 
   # returns a car.CarState
-  def update(self, c, can_strings):
-
-    self.cp.update_strings(can_strings)
-    self.cp_cam.update_strings(can_strings)
-
+  def _update(self, c):
     ret = self.CS.update(self.cp, self.cp_cam)
-    ret.canValid = self.cp.can_valid and self.cp_cam.can_valid
 
     # events
     events = self.create_common_events(ret)
@@ -93,8 +88,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
 
     ret.events = events.to_msg()
 
-    self.CS.out = ret.as_reader()
-    return self.CS.out
+    return ret
 
   def apply(self, c):
     ret = self.CC.update(c, self.CS, self.frame)
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/mock/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/mock/interface.py
index 79f37097c8..65e886751d 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/mock/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/mock/interface.py
@@ -48,7 +48,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return ret
 
   # returns a car.CarState
-  def update(self, c, can_strings):
+  def _update(self, c):
     # get basic data from phone and gps since CAN isn't connected
     sensors = messaging.recv_sock(self.sensor)
     if sensors is not None:
@@ -63,7 +63,6 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
 
     # create message
     ret = car.CarState.new_message()
-    ret.canValid = True
 
     # speeds
     ret.vEgo = self.speed
@@ -83,7 +82,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     curvature = self.yaw_rate / max(self.speed, 1.)
     ret.steeringAngleDeg = curvature * self.CP.steerRatio * self.CP.wheelbase * CV.RAD_TO_DEG
 
-    return ret.as_reader()
+    return ret
 
   def apply(self, c):
     # in mock no carcontrols
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/nissan/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/nissan/interface.py
index c078556434..3bf34e8266 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/nissan/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/nissan/interface.py
@@ -5,9 +5,6 @@ from selfdrive.car import STD_CARGO_KG, scale_rot_inertia, scale_tire_stiffness,
 from selfdrive.car.interfaces import CarInterfaceBase
 
 class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
-  def __init__(self, CP, CarController, CarState):
-    super().__init__(CP, CarController, CarState)
-    self.cp_adas = self.CS.get_adas_can_parser(CP)
 
   @staticmethod
   def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), car_fw=None, disable_radar=False):
@@ -53,15 +50,9 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return ret
 
   # returns a car.CarState
-  def update(self, c, can_strings):
-    self.cp.update_strings(can_strings)
-    self.cp_cam.update_strings(can_strings)
-    self.cp_adas.update_strings(can_strings)
-
+  def _update(self, c):
     ret = self.CS.update(self.cp, self.cp_adas, self.cp_cam)
 
-    ret.canValid = self.cp.can_valid and self.cp_adas.can_valid and self.cp_cam.can_valid
-
     buttonEvents = []
     be = car.CarState.ButtonEvent.new_message()
     be.type = car.CarState.ButtonEvent.Type.accelCruise
@@ -74,8 +65,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
 
     ret.events = events.to_msg()
 
-    self.CS.out = ret.as_reader()
-    return self.CS.out
+    return ret
 
   def apply(self, c):
     hud_control = c.hudControl
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/subaru/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/subaru/interface.py
index 37330f0e30..d0d8e91ce1 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/subaru/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/subaru/interface.py
@@ -107,19 +107,15 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return ret
 
   # returns a car.CarState
-  def update(self, c, can_strings):
-    self.cp.update_strings(can_strings)
-    self.cp_cam.update_strings(can_strings)
+  def _update(self, c):
 
     ret = self.CS.update(self.cp, self.cp_cam)
 
-    ret.canValid = self.cp.can_valid and self.cp_cam.can_valid
     ret.steeringRateLimited = self.CC.steer_rate_limited if self.CC is not None else False
 
     ret.events = self.create_common_events(ret).to_msg()
 
-    self.CS.out = ret.as_reader()
-    return self.CS.out
+    return ret
 
   def apply(self, c):
     hud_control = c.hudControl
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/tesla/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/tesla/interface.py
index 14d8e32de4..71594cecb6 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/tesla/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/tesla/interface.py
@@ -57,18 +57,12 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
 
     return ret
 
-  def update(self, c, can_strings):
-    self.cp.update_strings(can_strings)
-    self.cp_cam.update_strings(can_strings)
-
+  def _update(self, c):
     ret = self.CS.update(self.cp, self.cp_cam)
-    ret.canValid = self.cp.can_valid and self.cp_cam.can_valid
 
-    events = self.create_common_events(ret)
+    ret.events = self.create_common_events(ret).to_msg()
 
-    ret.events = events.to_msg()
-    self.CS.out = ret.as_reader()
-    return self.CS.out
+    return ret
 
   def apply(self, c):
     ret = self.CC.update(c, self.CS)
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/toyota/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/toyota/interface.py
index dc0c64ad1b..f7d5aba7ab 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/toyota/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/toyota/interface.py
@@ -240,14 +240,9 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return ret
 
   # returns a car.CarState
-  def update(self, c, can_strings):
-    # ******************* do can recv *******************
-    self.cp.update_strings(can_strings)
-    self.cp_cam.update_strings(can_strings)
-
+  def _update(self, c):
     ret = self.CS.update(self.cp, self.cp_cam)
 
-    ret.canValid = self.cp.can_valid and self.cp_cam.can_valid
     ret.steeringRateLimited = self.CC.steer_rate_limited if self.CC is not None else False
 
     # events
@@ -266,8 +261,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
 
     ret.events = events.to_msg()
 
-    self.CS.out = ret.as_reader()
-    return self.CS.out
+    return ret
 
   # pass in a car.CarControl
   # to be called @ 100hz
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/volkswagen/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/volkswagen/interface.py
index ef42d63e96..b0fd08ccfc 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/volkswagen/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/volkswagen/interface.py
@@ -161,17 +161,10 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return ret
 
   # returns a car.CarState
-  def update(self, c, can_strings):
+  def _update(self, c):
     buttonEvents = []
 
-    # Process the most recent CAN message traffic, and check for validity
-    # The camera CAN has no signals we use at this time, but we process it
-    # anyway so we can test connectivity with can_valid
-    self.cp.update_strings(can_strings)
-    self.cp_cam.update_strings(can_strings)
-
     ret = self.CS.update(self.cp, self.cp_cam, self.cp_ext, self.CP.transmissionType)
-    ret.canValid = self.cp.can_valid and self.cp_cam.can_valid
     ret.steeringRateLimited = self.CC.steer_rate_limited if self.CC is not None else False
 
     # Check for and process state-change events (button press or release) from
@@ -204,8 +197,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     self.displayMetricUnitsPrev = self.CS.displayMetricUnits
     self.buttonStatesPrev = self.CS.buttonStates.copy()
 
-    self.CS.out = ret.as_reader()
-    return self.CS.out
+    return ret
 
   def apply(self, c):
     hud_control = c.hudControl
diff --git a/selfdrive/controls/controlsd.py b/selfdrive/controls/controlsd.py
index 25b0c41419..e4db679b31 100755
--- a/selfdrive/controls/controlsd.py
+++ b/selfdrive/controls/controlsd.py
@@ -270,7 +270,9 @@ class Controls:
                                                     LaneChangeState.laneChangeFinishing):
       self.events.add(EventName.laneChange)
 
-    if not CS.canValid:
+    if CS.canTimeout:
+      self.events.add(EventName.canBusMissing)
+    elif not CS.canValid:
       self.events.add(EventName.canError)
 
     for i, pandaState in enumerate(self.sm['pandaStates']):
diff --git a/selfdrive/controls/lib/events.py b/selfdrive/controls/lib/events.py
index a355f14623..ad91fbcab0 100644
--- a/selfdrive/controls/lib/events.py
+++ b/selfdrive/controls/lib/events.py
@@ -757,7 +757,7 @@ EVENTS: Dict[int, Dict[str, Union[Alert, AlertCallbackType]]] = {
   # - CAN data is received, but some message are not received at the right frequency
   # If you're not writing a new car port, this is usually cause by faulty wiring
   EventName.canError: {
-    ET.IMMEDIATE_DISABLE: ImmediateDisableAlert("CAN Error: Check Connections"),
+    ET.IMMEDIATE_DISABLE: ImmediateDisableAlert("CAN Error"),
     ET.PERMANENT: Alert(
       "CAN Error: Check Connections",
       "",
@@ -766,7 +766,15 @@ EVENTS: Dict[int, Dict[str, Union[Alert, AlertCallbackType]]] = {
     ET.NO_ENTRY: NoEntryAlert("CAN Error: Check Connections"),
   },
 
-  EventName.canBusMissing: {},
+  EventName.canBusMissing: {
+    ET.IMMEDIATE_DISABLE: ImmediateDisableAlert("CAN Bus Disconnected"),
+    ET.PERMANENT: Alert(
+      "CAN Bus Disconnected: Likely Faulty Cable",
+      "",
+      AlertStatus.normal, AlertSize.small,
+      Priority.LOW, VisualAlert.none, AudibleAlert.none, 1., creation_delay=1.),
+    ET.NO_ENTRY: NoEntryAlert("CAN Bus Disconnected: Check Connections"),
+  },
 
   EventName.steerUnavailable: {
     ET.IMMEDIATE_DISABLE: ImmediateDisableAlert("LKAS Fault: Restart the Car"),
diff --git a/selfdrive/test/process_replay/ref_commit b/selfdrive/test/process_replay/ref_commit
index 79349868dd..b6b5465f31 100644
--- a/selfdrive/test/process_replay/ref_commit
+++ b/selfdrive/test/process_replay/ref_commit
@@ -1 +1 @@
-de01f1544a1441f89c24c5ea587f3f99632f2b5a
\ No newline at end of file
+dea753b12032ad2c50b4a163a3077a8530267800
\ No newline at end of file