diff --git a/RELEASES.md b/RELEASES.md
index 106010ec52..943bf9a1ff 100644
--- a/RELEASES.md
+++ b/RELEASES.md
@@ -1,5 +1,6 @@
 Version 0.7.11 (2020-XX-XX)
 ========================
+ * Grey panda is no longer supported, upgrade to comma two or black panda
  * Lexus NX 2018 support thanks to matt12eagles!
  * Kia Niro EV 2020 support thanks to nickn17!
 
diff --git a/apk/ai.comma.plus.offroad.apk b/apk/ai.comma.plus.offroad.apk
index 472f894bcc..d3d2acc1f1 100644
--- a/apk/ai.comma.plus.offroad.apk
+++ b/apk/ai.comma.plus.offroad.apk
@@ -1,3 +1,3 @@
 version https://git-lfs.github.com/spec/v1
-oid sha256:b3290c11ee8ededb1dc268aa24000c0831565c64d32ac9ce6521bfef2161b6e6
-size 13702753
+oid sha256:f9f629c0894ada01bdb7018899cec970ffa058948b25760ca840ebc3f4851767
+size 13710345
diff --git a/cereal b/cereal
index d87b4bbef9..eb0ede91af 160000
--- a/cereal
+++ b/cereal
@@ -1 +1 @@
-Subproject commit d87b4bbef90404ef4d2629db11499d163d0d15aa
+Subproject commit eb0ede91af24aba72adcefa545233107e4a970fe
diff --git a/common/params_pyx.pyx b/common/params_pyx.pyx
index 75ebacb3f5..b926cf4e9f 100755
--- a/common/params_pyx.pyx
+++ b/common/params_pyx.pyx
@@ -69,6 +69,7 @@ keys = {
   b"Offroad_IsTakingSnapshot": [TxType.CLEAR_ON_MANAGER_START],
   b"Offroad_NeosUpdate": [TxType.CLEAR_ON_MANAGER_START],
   b"Offroad_UpdateFailed": [TxType.CLEAR_ON_MANAGER_START],
+  b"Offroad_HardwareUnsupported": [TxType.CLEAR_ON_MANAGER_START],
 }
 
 def ensure_bytes(v):
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/car_helpers.py b/selfdrive/car/car_helpers.py
index 3df7c4c5c8..14dbbb889d 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/car_helpers.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/car_helpers.py
@@ -9,12 +9,11 @@ from selfdrive.swaglog import cloudlog
 import cereal.messaging as messaging
 from selfdrive.car import gen_empty_fingerprint
 
-from cereal import car, log
+from cereal import car
 EventName = car.CarEvent.EventName
-HwType = log.HealthData.HwType
 
 
-def get_startup_event(car_recognized, controller_available, hw_type):
+def get_startup_event(car_recognized, controller_available):
   if comma_remote and tested_branch:
     event = EventName.startup
   else:
@@ -24,8 +23,6 @@ def get_startup_event(car_recognized, controller_available, hw_type):
     event = EventName.startupNoCar
   elif car_recognized and not controller_available:
     event = EventName.startupNoControl
-  elif hw_type == HwType.greyPanda:
-    event = EventName.startupGreyPanda
   return event
 
 
@@ -84,11 +81,11 @@ def only_toyota_left(candidate_cars):
 
 
 # **** for use live only ****
-def fingerprint(logcan, sendcan, has_relay):
+def fingerprint(logcan, sendcan):
   fixed_fingerprint = os.environ.get('FINGERPRINT', "")
   skip_fw_query = os.environ.get('SKIP_FW_QUERY', False)
 
-  if has_relay and not fixed_fingerprint and not skip_fw_query:
+  if not fixed_fingerprint and not skip_fw_query:
     # Vin query only reliably works thorugh OBDII
     bus = 1
 
@@ -171,15 +168,15 @@ def fingerprint(logcan, sendcan, has_relay):
   return car_fingerprint, finger, vin, car_fw, source
 
 
-def get_car(logcan, sendcan, has_relay=False):
-  candidate, fingerprints, vin, car_fw, source = fingerprint(logcan, sendcan, has_relay)
+def get_car(logcan, sendcan):
+  candidate, fingerprints, vin, car_fw, source = fingerprint(logcan, sendcan)
 
   if candidate is None:
     cloudlog.warning("car doesn't match any fingerprints: %r", fingerprints)
     candidate = "mock"
 
   CarInterface, CarController, CarState = interfaces[candidate]
-  car_params = CarInterface.get_params(candidate, fingerprints, has_relay, car_fw)
+  car_params = CarInterface.get_params(candidate, fingerprints, car_fw)
   car_params.carVin = vin
   car_params.carFw = car_fw
   car_params.fingerprintSource = source
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/chrysler/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/chrysler/interface.py
index fbc469ebeb..e433665d99 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/chrysler/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/chrysler/interface.py
@@ -1,7 +1,7 @@
 #!/usr/bin/env python3
 from cereal import car
-from selfdrive.car.chrysler.values import Ecu, ECU_FINGERPRINT, CAR, FINGERPRINTS
-from selfdrive.car import STD_CARGO_KG, scale_rot_inertia, scale_tire_stiffness, is_ecu_disconnected, gen_empty_fingerprint
+from selfdrive.car.chrysler.values import CAR
+from selfdrive.car import STD_CARGO_KG, scale_rot_inertia, scale_tire_stiffness, gen_empty_fingerprint
 from selfdrive.car.interfaces import CarInterfaceBase
 
 
@@ -11,11 +11,11 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return float(accel) / 3.0
 
   @staticmethod
-  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=None, has_relay=False, car_fw=None):
+  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=None, car_fw=None):
     if fingerprint is None:
       fingerprint = gen_empty_fingerprint()
 
-    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint, has_relay)
+    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint)
     ret.carName = "chrysler"
     ret.safetyModel = car.CarParams.SafetyModel.chrysler
 
@@ -52,8 +52,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     # mass and CG position, so all cars will have approximately similar dyn behaviors
     ret.tireStiffnessFront, ret.tireStiffnessRear = scale_tire_stiffness(ret.mass, ret.wheelbase, ret.centerToFront)
 
-    ret.enableCamera = is_ecu_disconnected(fingerprint[0], FINGERPRINTS, ECU_FINGERPRINT, candidate, Ecu.fwdCamera) or has_relay
-    print("ECU Camera Simulated: {0}".format(ret.enableCamera))
+    ret.enableCamera = True
 
     return ret
 
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/chrysler/values.py b/selfdrive/car/chrysler/values.py
index b7fb53f530..88110f0530 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/chrysler/values.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/chrysler/values.py
@@ -91,8 +91,3 @@ DBC = {
 }
 
 STEER_THRESHOLD = 120
-
-
-ECU_FINGERPRINT = {
-  Ecu.fwdCamera: [0x292],  # lkas cmd
-}
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/ford/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/ford/interface.py
index 6d6c82f0b8..9def1ca86b 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/ford/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/ford/interface.py
@@ -2,8 +2,8 @@
 from cereal import car
 from selfdrive.swaglog import cloudlog
 from selfdrive.config import Conversions as CV
-from selfdrive.car.ford.values import MAX_ANGLE, Ecu, ECU_FINGERPRINT, FINGERPRINTS
-from selfdrive.car import STD_CARGO_KG, scale_rot_inertia, scale_tire_stiffness, is_ecu_disconnected, gen_empty_fingerprint
+from selfdrive.car.ford.values import MAX_ANGLE
+from selfdrive.car import STD_CARGO_KG, scale_rot_inertia, scale_tire_stiffness, gen_empty_fingerprint
 from selfdrive.car.interfaces import CarInterfaceBase
 
 
@@ -14,8 +14,8 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return float(accel) / 3.0
 
   @staticmethod
-  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), has_relay=False, car_fw=None):
-    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint, has_relay)
+  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), car_fw=None):
+    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint)
     ret.carName = "ford"
     ret.safetyModel = car.CarParams.SafetyModel.ford
     ret.dashcamOnly = True
@@ -43,7 +43,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
 
     ret.steerControlType = car.CarParams.SteerControlType.angle
 
-    ret.enableCamera = is_ecu_disconnected(fingerprint[0], FINGERPRINTS, ECU_FINGERPRINT, candidate, Ecu.fwdCamera) or has_relay
+    ret.enableCamera = True
     cloudlog.warning("ECU Camera Simulated: %r", ret.enableCamera)
 
     return ret
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/ford/values.py b/selfdrive/car/ford/values.py
index 7c4d0aed98..315c398ab6 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/ford/values.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/ford/values.py
@@ -15,10 +15,6 @@ FINGERPRINTS = {
   }],
 }
 
-ECU_FINGERPRINT = {
-  Ecu.fwdCamera: [970, 973, 984]
-}
-
 DBC = {
   CAR.FUSION: dbc_dict('ford_fusion_2018_pt', 'ford_fusion_2018_adas'),
 }
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/gm/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/gm/interface.py
index 0fc3d278ce..2f7d8f473b 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/gm/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/gm/interface.py
@@ -1,9 +1,9 @@
 #!/usr/bin/env python3
 from cereal import car
 from selfdrive.config import Conversions as CV
-from selfdrive.car.gm.values import CAR, Ecu, ECU_FINGERPRINT, CruiseButtons, \
-                                    AccState, FINGERPRINTS
-from selfdrive.car import STD_CARGO_KG, scale_rot_inertia, scale_tire_stiffness, is_ecu_disconnected, gen_empty_fingerprint
+from selfdrive.car.gm.values import CAR, CruiseButtons, \
+                                    AccState
+from selfdrive.car import STD_CARGO_KG, scale_rot_inertia, scale_tire_stiffness, gen_empty_fingerprint
 from selfdrive.car.interfaces import CarInterfaceBase
 
 ButtonType = car.CarState.ButtonEvent.Type
@@ -16,8 +16,8 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return float(accel) / 4.0
 
   @staticmethod
-  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), has_relay=False, car_fw=None):
-    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint, has_relay)
+  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), car_fw=None):
+    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint)
     ret.carName = "gm"
     ret.safetyModel = car.CarParams.SafetyModel.gm
     ret.enableCruise = False  # stock cruise control is kept off
@@ -29,7 +29,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     # Presence of a camera on the object bus is ok.
     # Have to go to read_only if ASCM is online (ACC-enabled cars),
     # or camera is on powertrain bus (LKA cars without ACC).
-    ret.enableCamera = is_ecu_disconnected(fingerprint[0], FINGERPRINTS, ECU_FINGERPRINT, candidate, Ecu.fwdCamera) or has_relay
+    ret.enableCamera = True
     ret.openpilotLongitudinalControl = ret.enableCamera
     tire_stiffness_factor = 0.444  # not optimized yet
 
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/gm/values.py b/selfdrive/car/gm/values.py
index efe696f8a6..5e50e6166e 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/gm/values.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/gm/values.py
@@ -70,10 +70,6 @@ FINGERPRINTS = {
 
 STEER_THRESHOLD = 1.0
 
-ECU_FINGERPRINT = {
-  Ecu.fwdCamera: [384, 715]  # 384 = "ASCMLKASteeringCmd", 715 = "ASCMGasRegenCmd"
-}
-
 DBC = {
   CAR.HOLDEN_ASTRA: dbc_dict('gm_global_a_powertrain', 'gm_global_a_object', chassis_dbc='gm_global_a_chassis'),
   CAR.VOLT: dbc_dict('gm_global_a_powertrain', 'gm_global_a_object', chassis_dbc='gm_global_a_chassis'),
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/honda/carcontroller.py b/selfdrive/car/honda/carcontroller.py
index 60f3a94e48..b73af39a66 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/honda/carcontroller.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/honda/carcontroller.py
@@ -145,22 +145,22 @@ class CarController():
     # Send steering command.
     idx = frame % 4
     can_sends.append(hondacan.create_steering_control(self.packer, apply_steer,
-      lkas_active, CS.CP.carFingerprint, idx, CS.CP.isPandaBlack, CS.CP.openpilotLongitudinalControl))
+      lkas_active, CS.CP.carFingerprint, idx, CS.CP.openpilotLongitudinalControl))
 
     # Send dashboard UI commands.
     if (frame % 10) == 0:
       idx = (frame//10) % 4
-      can_sends.extend(hondacan.create_ui_commands(self.packer, pcm_speed, hud, CS.CP.carFingerprint, CS.is_metric, idx, CS.CP.isPandaBlack, CS.CP.openpilotLongitudinalControl, CS.stock_hud))
+      can_sends.extend(hondacan.create_ui_commands(self.packer, pcm_speed, hud, CS.CP.carFingerprint, CS.is_metric, idx, CS.CP.openpilotLongitudinalControl, CS.stock_hud))
 
     if not CS.CP.openpilotLongitudinalControl:
       if (frame % 2) == 0:
         idx = frame // 2
-        can_sends.append(hondacan.create_bosch_supplemental_1(self.packer, CS.CP.carFingerprint, idx, CS.CP.isPandaBlack))
+        can_sends.append(hondacan.create_bosch_supplemental_1(self.packer, CS.CP.carFingerprint, idx))
       # If using stock ACC, spam cancel command to kill gas when OP disengages.
       if pcm_cancel_cmd:
-        can_sends.append(hondacan.spam_buttons_command(self.packer, CruiseButtons.CANCEL, idx, CS.CP.carFingerprint, CS.CP.isPandaBlack))
+        can_sends.append(hondacan.spam_buttons_command(self.packer, CruiseButtons.CANCEL, idx, CS.CP.carFingerprint))
       elif CS.out.cruiseState.standstill:
-        can_sends.append(hondacan.spam_buttons_command(self.packer, CruiseButtons.RES_ACCEL, idx, CS.CP.carFingerprint, CS.CP.isPandaBlack))
+        can_sends.append(hondacan.spam_buttons_command(self.packer, CruiseButtons.RES_ACCEL, idx, CS.CP.carFingerprint))
 
     else:
       # Send gas and brake commands.
@@ -174,7 +174,7 @@ class CarController():
           apply_brake = int(clip(self.brake_last * P.BRAKE_MAX, 0, P.BRAKE_MAX - 1))
           pump_on, self.last_pump_ts = brake_pump_hysteresis(apply_brake, self.apply_brake_last, self.last_pump_ts, ts)
           can_sends.append(hondacan.create_brake_command(self.packer, apply_brake, pump_on,
-            pcm_override, pcm_cancel_cmd, hud.fcw, idx, CS.CP.carFingerprint, CS.CP.isPandaBlack, CS.stock_brake))
+            pcm_override, pcm_cancel_cmd, hud.fcw, idx, CS.CP.carFingerprint, CS.stock_brake))
           self.apply_brake_last = apply_brake
 
           if CS.CP.enableGasInterceptor:
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/honda/carstate.py b/selfdrive/car/honda/carstate.py
index 56e16e6d5c..16d85892a6 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/honda/carstate.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/honda/carstate.py
@@ -336,7 +336,7 @@ class CarState(CarStateBase):
   @staticmethod
   def get_can_parser(CP):
     signals, checks = get_can_signals(CP)
-    bus_pt = 1 if CP.isPandaBlack and CP.carFingerprint in HONDA_BOSCH else 0
+    bus_pt = 1 if CP.carFingerprint in HONDA_BOSCH else 0
     return CANParser(DBC[CP.carFingerprint]['pt'], signals, checks, bus_pt)
 
   @staticmethod
@@ -361,8 +361,7 @@ class CarState(CarStateBase):
     if CP.carFingerprint in [CAR.CRV, CAR.CRV_EU, CAR.ACURA_RDX, CAR.ODYSSEY_CHN]:
       checks = [(0x194, 100)]
 
-    bus_cam = 1 if CP.carFingerprint in HONDA_BOSCH and not CP.isPandaBlack else 2
-    return CANParser(DBC[CP.carFingerprint]['pt'], signals, checks, bus_cam)
+    return CANParser(DBC[CP.carFingerprint]['pt'], signals, checks, 2)
 
   @staticmethod
   def get_body_can_parser(CP):
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/honda/hondacan.py b/selfdrive/car/honda/hondacan.py
index 45aea3fc1c..ef25647022 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/honda/hondacan.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/honda/hondacan.py
@@ -7,24 +7,19 @@ from selfdrive.car.honda.values import HONDA_BOSCH
 # 2 = ACC-CAN - camera side
 # 3 = F-CAN A - OBDII port
 
-# CAN bus layout with giraffe
-# 0 = F-CAN B - powertrain
-# 1 = ACC-CAN - camera side
-# 2 = ACC-CAN - radar side
+def get_pt_bus(car_fingerprint):
+  return 1 if car_fingerprint in HONDA_BOSCH else 0
 
-def get_pt_bus(car_fingerprint, has_relay):
-  return 1 if car_fingerprint in HONDA_BOSCH and has_relay else 0
 
-
-def get_lkas_cmd_bus(car_fingerprint, has_relay, radar_disabled=False):
+def get_lkas_cmd_bus(car_fingerprint, radar_disabled=False):
   if radar_disabled:
     # when radar is disabled, steering commands are sent directly to powertrain bus
-    return get_pt_bus(car_fingerprint, has_relay)
+    return get_pt_bus(car_fingerprint)
   # normally steering commands are sent to radar, which forwards them to powertrain bus
-  return 2 if car_fingerprint in HONDA_BOSCH and not has_relay else 0
+  return 0
 
 
-def create_brake_command(packer, apply_brake, pump_on, pcm_override, pcm_cancel_cmd, fcw, idx, car_fingerprint, has_relay, stock_brake):
+def create_brake_command(packer, apply_brake, pump_on, pcm_override, pcm_cancel_cmd, fcw, idx, car_fingerprint, stock_brake):
   # TODO: do we loose pressure if we keep pump off for long?
   brakelights = apply_brake > 0
   brake_rq = apply_brake > 0
@@ -45,13 +40,13 @@ def create_brake_command(packer, apply_brake, pump_on, pcm_override, pcm_cancel_
     "AEB_REQ_2": 0,
     "AEB_STATUS": 0,
   }
-  bus = get_pt_bus(car_fingerprint, has_relay)
+  bus = get_pt_bus(car_fingerprint)
   return packer.make_can_msg("BRAKE_COMMAND", bus, values, idx)
 
 
-def create_acc_commands(packer, enabled, accel, gas, idx, stopping, starting, car_fingerprint, has_relay):
+def create_acc_commands(packer, enabled, accel, gas, idx, stopping, starting, car_fingerprint):
   commands = []
-  bus = get_pt_bus(car_fingerprint, has_relay)
+  bus = get_pt_bus(car_fingerprint)
 
   control_on = 5 if enabled else 0
   # no gas = -30000
@@ -84,31 +79,31 @@ def create_acc_commands(packer, enabled, accel, gas, idx, stopping, starting, ca
 
   return commands
 
-def create_steering_control(packer, apply_steer, lkas_active, car_fingerprint, idx, has_relay, radar_disabled):
+def create_steering_control(packer, apply_steer, lkas_active, car_fingerprint, idx, radar_disabled):
   values = {
     "STEER_TORQUE": apply_steer if lkas_active else 0,
     "STEER_TORQUE_REQUEST": lkas_active,
   }
-  bus = get_lkas_cmd_bus(car_fingerprint, has_relay, radar_disabled)
+  bus = get_lkas_cmd_bus(car_fingerprint, radar_disabled)
   return packer.make_can_msg("STEERING_CONTROL", bus, values, idx)
 
 
-def create_bosch_supplemental_1(packer, car_fingerprint, idx, has_relay):
+def create_bosch_supplemental_1(packer, car_fingerprint, idx):
   # non-active params
   values = {
     "SET_ME_X04": 0x04,
     "SET_ME_X80": 0x80,
     "SET_ME_X10": 0x10,
   }
-  bus = get_lkas_cmd_bus(car_fingerprint, has_relay)
+  bus = get_lkas_cmd_bus(car_fingerprint)
   return packer.make_can_msg("BOSCH_SUPPLEMENTAL_1", bus, values, idx)
 
 
-def create_ui_commands(packer, pcm_speed, hud, car_fingerprint, is_metric, idx, has_relay, openpilot_longitudinal_control, stock_hud):
+def create_ui_commands(packer, pcm_speed, hud, car_fingerprint, is_metric, idx, openpilot_longitudinal_control, stock_hud):
   commands = []
-  bus_pt = get_pt_bus(car_fingerprint, has_relay)
+  bus_pt = get_pt_bus(car_fingerprint)
   radar_disabled = car_fingerprint in HONDA_BOSCH and openpilot_longitudinal_control
-  bus_lkas = get_lkas_cmd_bus(car_fingerprint, has_relay, radar_disabled)
+  bus_lkas = get_lkas_cmd_bus(car_fingerprint, radar_disabled)
 
   if openpilot_longitudinal_control:
     if car_fingerprint in HONDA_BOSCH:
@@ -158,10 +153,10 @@ def create_ui_commands(packer, pcm_speed, hud, car_fingerprint, is_metric, idx,
   return commands
 
 
-def spam_buttons_command(packer, button_val, idx, car_fingerprint, has_relay):
+def spam_buttons_command(packer, button_val, idx, car_fingerprint):
   values = {
     'CRUISE_BUTTONS': button_val,
     'CRUISE_SETTING': 0,
   }
-  bus = get_pt_bus(car_fingerprint, has_relay)
+  bus = get_pt_bus(car_fingerprint)
   return packer.make_can_msg("SCM_BUTTONS", bus, values, idx)
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/honda/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/honda/interface.py
index 7331c673c7..22bf25ade9 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/honda/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/honda/interface.py
@@ -6,8 +6,8 @@ from common.realtime import DT_CTRL
 from selfdrive.swaglog import cloudlog
 from selfdrive.config import Conversions as CV
 from selfdrive.controls.lib.events import ET
-from selfdrive.car.honda.values import CruiseButtons, CAR, HONDA_BOSCH, Ecu, ECU_FINGERPRINT, FINGERPRINTS
-from selfdrive.car import STD_CARGO_KG, CivicParams, scale_rot_inertia, scale_tire_stiffness, is_ecu_disconnected, gen_empty_fingerprint
+from selfdrive.car.honda.values import CruiseButtons, CAR, HONDA_BOSCH
+from selfdrive.car import STD_CARGO_KG, CivicParams, scale_rot_inertia, scale_tire_stiffness, gen_empty_fingerprint
 from selfdrive.controls.lib.planner import _A_CRUISE_MAX_V_FOLLOWING
 from selfdrive.car.interfaces import CarInterfaceBase
 
@@ -119,19 +119,18 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return float(max(max_accel, a_target / A_ACC_MAX)) * min(speedLimiter, accelLimiter)
 
   @staticmethod
-  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), has_relay=False, car_fw=[]):  # pylint: disable=dangerous-default-value
-    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint, has_relay)
+  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), car_fw=[]):  # pylint: disable=dangerous-default-value
+    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint)
     ret.carName = "honda"
 
     if candidate in HONDA_BOSCH:
-      ret.safetyModel = car.CarParams.SafetyModel.hondaBoschHarness if has_relay else car.CarParams.SafetyModel.hondaBoschGiraffe
-      rdr_bus = 0 if has_relay else 2
-      ret.enableCamera = is_ecu_disconnected(fingerprint[rdr_bus], FINGERPRINTS, ECU_FINGERPRINT, candidate, Ecu.fwdCamera) or has_relay
+      ret.safetyModel = car.CarParams.SafetyModel.hondaBoschHarness
+      ret.enableCamera = True
       ret.radarOffCan = True
       ret.openpilotLongitudinalControl = False
     else:
       ret.safetyModel = car.CarParams.SafetyModel.hondaNidec
-      ret.enableCamera = is_ecu_disconnected(fingerprint[0], FINGERPRINTS, ECU_FINGERPRINT, candidate, Ecu.fwdCamera) or has_relay
+      ret.enableCamera = True
       ret.enableGasInterceptor = 0x201 in fingerprint[0]
       ret.openpilotLongitudinalControl = ret.enableCamera
 
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/honda/values.py b/selfdrive/car/honda/values.py
index 949ddaf9f3..5eca73c2d7 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/honda/values.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/honda/values.py
@@ -1036,10 +1036,4 @@ SPEED_FACTOR = {
   CAR.INSIGHT: 1.,
 }
 
-# msgs sent for steering controller by camera module on can 0.
-# those messages are mutually exclusive on CRV and non-CRV cars
-ECU_FINGERPRINT = {
-  Ecu.fwdCamera: [0xE4, 0x194],   # steer torque cmd
-}
-
 HONDA_BOSCH = set([CAR.ACCORD, CAR.ACCORD_15, CAR.ACCORDH, CAR.CIVIC_BOSCH, CAR.CIVIC_BOSCH_DIESEL, CAR.CRV_5G, CAR.CRV_HYBRID, CAR.INSIGHT, CAR.ACURA_RDX_3G])
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/hyundai/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/hyundai/interface.py
index 0b86a1f21b..eff7c6d207 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/hyundai/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/hyundai/interface.py
@@ -1,8 +1,8 @@
 #!/usr/bin/env python3
 from cereal import car
 from selfdrive.config import Conversions as CV
-from selfdrive.car.hyundai.values import Ecu, ECU_FINGERPRINT, CAR, FINGERPRINTS
-from selfdrive.car import STD_CARGO_KG, scale_rot_inertia, scale_tire_stiffness, is_ecu_disconnected, gen_empty_fingerprint
+from selfdrive.car.hyundai.values import CAR
+from selfdrive.car import STD_CARGO_KG, scale_rot_inertia, scale_tire_stiffness, gen_empty_fingerprint
 from selfdrive.car.interfaces import CarInterfaceBase
 
 class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
@@ -12,8 +12,8 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return float(accel) / 3.0
 
   @staticmethod
-  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), has_relay=False, car_fw=[]):  # pylint: disable=dangerous-default-value
-    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint, has_relay)
+  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), car_fw=[]):  # pylint: disable=dangerous-default-value
+    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint)
 
     ret.carName = "hyundai"
     ret.safetyModel = car.CarParams.SafetyModel.hyundai
@@ -168,10 +168,10 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
       ret.steerRatio = 13.75 * 1.15
       tire_stiffness_factor = 0.5
       ret.lateralTuning.pid.kiBP, ret.lateralTuning.pid.kpBP = [[0.], [0.]]
-      ret.lateralTuning.pid.kpV, ret.lateralTuning.pid.kiV = [[0.25], [0.05]]  
+      ret.lateralTuning.pid.kpV, ret.lateralTuning.pid.kiV = [[0.25], [0.05]]
 
     # these cars require a special panda safety mode due to missing counters and checksums in the messages
-    if candidate in [CAR.HYUNDAI_GENESIS, CAR.IONIQ_EV_LTD, CAR.IONIQ, CAR.KONA_EV, CAR.KIA_SORENTO, CAR.SONATA_2019, 
+    if candidate in [CAR.HYUNDAI_GENESIS, CAR.IONIQ_EV_LTD, CAR.IONIQ, CAR.KONA_EV, CAR.KIA_SORENTO, CAR.SONATA_2019,
                      CAR.KIA_NIRO_EV, CAR.KIA_OPTIMA, CAR.VELOSTER, CAR.KIA_STINGER, CAR.GENESIS_G70]:
       ret.safetyModel = car.CarParams.SafetyModel.hyundaiLegacy
 
@@ -186,7 +186,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     ret.tireStiffnessFront, ret.tireStiffnessRear = scale_tire_stiffness(ret.mass, ret.wheelbase, ret.centerToFront,
                                                                          tire_stiffness_factor=tire_stiffness_factor)
 
-    ret.enableCamera = is_ecu_disconnected(fingerprint[0], FINGERPRINTS, ECU_FINGERPRINT, candidate, Ecu.fwdCamera) or has_relay
+    ret.enableCamera = True
 
     return ret
 
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/hyundai/values.py b/selfdrive/car/hyundai/values.py
index 97040fcd10..dd76f7bbbd 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/hyundai/values.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/hyundai/values.py
@@ -150,10 +150,6 @@ FINGERPRINTS = {
   }]
 }
 
-ECU_FINGERPRINT = {
-  Ecu.fwdCamera: [832, 1156, 1191, 1342]
-}
-
 # Don't use these fingerprints for fingerprinting, they are still used for ECU detection
 IGNORED_FINGERPRINTS = [CAR.VELOSTER, CAR.GENESIS_G70, CAR.KONA]
 
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/interfaces.py b/selfdrive/car/interfaces.py
index a4dcb905c5..f7078ed238 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/interfaces.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/interfaces.py
@@ -42,15 +42,15 @@ class CarInterfaceBase():
     raise NotImplementedError
 
   @staticmethod
-  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), has_relay=False, car_fw=None):
+  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), car_fw=None):
     raise NotImplementedError
 
   # returns a set of default params to avoid repetition in car specific params
   @staticmethod
-  def get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint, has_relay):
+  def get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint):
     ret = car.CarParams.new_message()
     ret.carFingerprint = candidate
-    ret.isPandaBlack = has_relay
+    ret.isPandaBlack = True # TODO: deprecate this field
 
     # standard ALC params
     ret.steerControlType = car.CarParams.SteerControlType.torque
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/mazda/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/mazda/interface.py
index 81dff12b9c..fc1219453b 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/mazda/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/mazda/interface.py
@@ -1,8 +1,8 @@
 #!/usr/bin/env python3
 from cereal import car
 from selfdrive.config import Conversions as CV
-from selfdrive.car.mazda.values import CAR, LKAS_LIMITS, FINGERPRINTS, ECU_FINGERPRINT, Ecu
-from selfdrive.car import STD_CARGO_KG, scale_rot_inertia, scale_tire_stiffness, gen_empty_fingerprint, is_ecu_disconnected
+from selfdrive.car.mazda.values import CAR, LKAS_LIMITS
+from selfdrive.car import STD_CARGO_KG, scale_rot_inertia, scale_tire_stiffness, gen_empty_fingerprint
 from selfdrive.car.interfaces import CarInterfaceBase
 
 ButtonType = car.CarState.ButtonEvent.Type
@@ -15,8 +15,8 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return float(accel) / 4.0
 
   @staticmethod
-  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), has_relay=False, car_fw=None):
-    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint, has_relay)
+  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), car_fw=None):
+    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint)
 
     ret.carName = "mazda"
     ret.safetyModel = car.CarParams.SafetyModel.mazda
@@ -67,7 +67,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     ret.tireStiffnessFront, ret.tireStiffnessRear = scale_tire_stiffness(ret.mass, ret.wheelbase, ret.centerToFront,
                                                                          tire_stiffness_factor=tire_stiffness_factor)
 
-    ret.enableCamera = is_ecu_disconnected(fingerprint[0], FINGERPRINTS, ECU_FINGERPRINT, candidate, Ecu.fwdCamera) or has_relay
+    ret.enableCamera = True
 
     return ret
 
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/mazda/values.py b/selfdrive/car/mazda/values.py
index 4e194d61d1..81c2b2b4a4 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/mazda/values.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/mazda/values.py
@@ -71,10 +71,6 @@ FINGERPRINTS = {
   ],
 }
 
-ECU_FINGERPRINT = {
-  Ecu.fwdCamera: [579],   # steer torque cmd
-}
-
 
 DBC = {
   CAR.CX5: dbc_dict('mazda_2017', None),
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/mock/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/mock/interface.py
index 4b703d5e90..f75d1c58ff 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/mock/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/mock/interface.py
@@ -33,8 +33,8 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return accel
 
   @staticmethod
-  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), has_relay=False, car_fw=None):
-    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint, has_relay)
+  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), car_fw=None):
+    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint)
     ret.carName = "mock"
     ret.safetyModel = car.CarParams.SafetyModel.noOutput
     ret.mass = 1700.
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/nissan/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/nissan/interface.py
index 9c419c5a8f..9f2ac20e0a 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/nissan/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/nissan/interface.py
@@ -14,9 +14,9 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return float(accel) / 4.0
 
   @staticmethod
-  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), has_relay=False, car_fw=None):
+  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), car_fw=None):
 
-    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint, has_relay)
+    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint)
     ret.carName = "nissan"
     ret.safetyModel = car.CarParams.SafetyModel.nissan
 
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/subaru/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/subaru/interface.py
index 6d65f64f3d..8012624a3c 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/subaru/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/subaru/interface.py
@@ -11,8 +11,8 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return float(accel) / 4.0
 
   @staticmethod
-  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), has_relay=False, car_fw=None):
-    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint, has_relay)
+  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), car_fw=None):
+    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint)
 
     ret.carName = "subaru"
     ret.radarOffCan = True
@@ -24,11 +24,8 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
 
     # Subaru port is a community feature, since we don't own one to test
     ret.communityFeature = True
-
     ret.dashcamOnly = candidate in PREGLOBAL_CARS
 
-    # force openpilot to fake the stock camera, since car harness is not supported yet and old style giraffe (with switches)
-    # was never released
     ret.enableCamera = True
 
     ret.steerRateCost = 0.7
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/subaru/values.py b/selfdrive/car/subaru/values.py
index 8cbb6fe72d..937728d885 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/subaru/values.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/subaru/values.py
@@ -78,10 +78,6 @@ STEER_THRESHOLD = {
   CAR.OUTBACK_PREGLOBAL_2018: 75,
 }
 
-ECU_FINGERPRINT = {
-  Ecu.fwdCamera: [290, 356],   # steer torque cmd
-}
-
 DBC = {
   CAR.ASCENT: dbc_dict('subaru_global_2017_generated', None),
   CAR.IMPREZA: dbc_dict('subaru_global_2017_generated', None),
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/tests/test_car_interfaces.py b/selfdrive/car/tests/test_car_interfaces.py
index 069d5af00b..be05c9d065 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/tests/test_car_interfaces.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/tests/test_car_interfaces.py
@@ -25,36 +25,35 @@ class TestCarInterfaces(unittest.TestCase):
 
       car_fw = []
 
-      for has_relay in [True, False]:
-        car_params = CarInterface.get_params(car_name, fingerprints, has_relay, car_fw)
-        car_interface = CarInterface(car_params, CarController, CarState)
-        assert car_params
-        assert car_interface
+      car_params = CarInterface.get_params(car_name, fingerprints, car_fw)
+      car_interface = CarInterface(car_params, CarController, CarState)
+      assert car_params
+      assert car_interface
 
-        self.assertGreater(car_params.mass, 1)
-        self.assertGreater(car_params.steerRateCost, 1e-3)
+      self.assertGreater(car_params.mass, 1)
+      self.assertGreater(car_params.steerRateCost, 1e-3)
 
-        tuning = car_params.lateralTuning.which()
-        if tuning == 'pid':
-          self.assertTrue(len(car_params.lateralTuning.pid.kpV))
-        elif tuning == 'lqr':
-          self.assertTrue(len(car_params.lateralTuning.lqr.a))
-        elif tuning == 'indi':
-          self.assertGreater(car_params.lateralTuning.indi.outerLoopGain, 1e-3)
+      tuning = car_params.lateralTuning.which()
+      if tuning == 'pid':
+        self.assertTrue(len(car_params.lateralTuning.pid.kpV))
+      elif tuning == 'lqr':
+        self.assertTrue(len(car_params.lateralTuning.lqr.a))
+      elif tuning == 'indi':
+        self.assertGreater(car_params.lateralTuning.indi.outerLoopGain, 1e-3)
 
-        # Run car interface
-        CC = car.CarControl.new_message()
-        for _ in range(10):
-          car_interface.update(CC, [])
-          car_interface.apply(CC)
-          car_interface.apply(CC)
+      # Run car interface
+      CC = car.CarControl.new_message()
+      for _ in range(10):
+        car_interface.update(CC, [])
+        car_interface.apply(CC)
+        car_interface.apply(CC)
 
-        CC = car.CarControl.new_message()
-        CC.enabled = True
-        for _ in range(10):
-          car_interface.update(CC, [])
-          car_interface.apply(CC)
-          car_interface.apply(CC)
+      CC = car.CarControl.new_message()
+      CC.enabled = True
+      for _ in range(10):
+        car_interface.update(CC, [])
+        car_interface.apply(CC)
+        car_interface.apply(CC)
 
       # Test radar interface
       RadarInterface = importlib.import_module('selfdrive.car.%s.radar_interface' % car_params.carName).RadarInterface
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/toyota/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/toyota/interface.py
index e40ad2f00e..711c65a58f 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/toyota/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/toyota/interface.py
@@ -14,8 +14,8 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return float(accel) / 3.0
 
   @staticmethod
-  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), has_relay=False, car_fw=[]):  # pylint: disable=dangerous-default-value
-    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint, has_relay)
+  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), car_fw=[]):  # pylint: disable=dangerous-default-value
+    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint)
 
     ret.carName = "toyota"
     ret.safetyModel = car.CarParams.SafetyModel.toyota
@@ -275,7 +275,7 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     ret.tireStiffnessFront, ret.tireStiffnessRear = scale_tire_stiffness(ret.mass, ret.wheelbase, ret.centerToFront,
                                                                          tire_stiffness_factor=tire_stiffness_factor)
 
-    ret.enableCamera = is_ecu_disconnected(fingerprint[0], FINGERPRINTS, ECU_FINGERPRINT, candidate, Ecu.fwdCamera) or has_relay
+    ret.enableCamera = True
     # Detect smartDSU, which intercepts ACC_CMD from the DSU allowing openpilot to send it
     smartDsu = 0x2FF in fingerprint[0]
     # In TSS2 cars the camera does long control
@@ -327,8 +327,6 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     # events
     events = self.create_common_events(ret)
 
-    if self.cp_cam.can_invalid_cnt >= 200 and self.CP.enableCamera and not self.CP.isPandaBlack:
-      events.add(EventName.invalidGiraffeToyota)
     if self.CS.low_speed_lockout and self.CP.openpilotLongitudinalControl:
       events.add(EventName.lowSpeedLockout)
     if ret.vEgo < self.CP.minEnableSpeed and self.CP.openpilotLongitudinalControl:
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/volkswagen/interface.py b/selfdrive/car/volkswagen/interface.py
index c041c6c44c..252306322b 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/volkswagen/interface.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/volkswagen/interface.py
@@ -18,8 +18,8 @@ class CarInterface(CarInterfaceBase):
     return float(accel) / 4.0
 
   @staticmethod
-  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), has_relay=False, car_fw=None):
-    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint, has_relay)
+  def get_params(candidate, fingerprint=gen_empty_fingerprint(), car_fw=None):
+    ret = CarInterfaceBase.get_std_params(candidate, fingerprint)
 
     # VW port is a community feature, since we don't own one to test
     ret.communityFeature = True
diff --git a/selfdrive/controls/controlsd.py b/selfdrive/controls/controlsd.py
index d58eb26775..e8cd95f34a 100755
--- a/selfdrive/controls/controlsd.py
+++ b/selfdrive/controls/controlsd.py
@@ -61,12 +61,10 @@ class Controls:
       self.can_sock = messaging.sub_sock('can', timeout=can_timeout)
 
     # wait for one health and one CAN packet
-    hw_type = messaging.recv_one(self.sm.sock['health']).health.hwType
-    has_relay = hw_type in [HwType.blackPanda, HwType.uno, HwType.dos]
     print("Waiting for CAN messages...")
     get_one_can(self.can_sock)
 
-    self.CI, self.CP = get_car(self.can_sock, self.pm.sock['sendcan'], has_relay)
+    self.CI, self.CP = get_car(self.can_sock, self.pm.sock['sendcan'])
 
     # read params
     params = Params()
@@ -131,7 +129,7 @@ class Controls:
     self.sm['dMonitoringState'].awarenessStatus = 1.
     self.sm['dMonitoringState'].faceDetected = False
 
-    self.startup_event = get_startup_event(car_recognized, controller_available, hw_type)
+    self.startup_event = get_startup_event(car_recognized, controller_available)
 
     if not sounds_available:
       self.events.add(EventName.soundsUnavailable, static=True)
@@ -141,8 +139,6 @@ class Controls:
       self.events.add(EventName.communityFeatureDisallowed, static=True)
     if not car_recognized:
       self.events.add(EventName.carUnrecognized, static=True)
-    if hw_type == HwType.whitePanda:
-      self.events.add(EventName.whitePandaUnsupported, static=True)
 
     # controlsd is driven by can recv, expected at 100Hz
     self.rk = Ratekeeper(100, print_delay_threshold=None)
diff --git a/selfdrive/controls/lib/alerts_offroad.json b/selfdrive/controls/lib/alerts_offroad.json
index f343f4cd5e..a47eb8c0a2 100644
--- a/selfdrive/controls/lib/alerts_offroad.json
+++ b/selfdrive/controls/lib/alerts_offroad.json
@@ -36,5 +36,9 @@
   "Offroad_NeosUpdate": {
     "text": "An update to your device's operating system is downloading in the background. You will be prompted to update when it's ready to install.",
     "severity": 0
+  },
+  "Offroad_HardwareUnsupported": {
+    "text": "White and grey panda are unsupported. Upgrade to comma two or black panda.",
+    "severity": 0
   }
 }
diff --git a/selfdrive/controls/lib/events.py b/selfdrive/controls/lib/events.py
index ce5ef47952..d0b10ec84e 100644
--- a/selfdrive/controls/lib/events.py
+++ b/selfdrive/controls/lib/events.py
@@ -252,31 +252,6 @@ EVENTS: Dict[int, Dict[str, Union[Alert, Callable[[Any, messaging.SubMaster, boo
       Priority.LOWER, VisualAlert.none, AudibleAlert.none, 0., 0., 15.),
   },
 
-  EventName.startupGreyPanda: {
-    ET.PERMANENT: Alert(
-      "WARNING: Grey panda is deprecated",
-      "Upgrade to comma two or black panda",
-      AlertStatus.userPrompt, AlertSize.mid,
-      Priority.LOWER, VisualAlert.none, AudibleAlert.none, 0., 0., 15.),
-  },
-
-  EventName.invalidGiraffeToyota: {
-    ET.PERMANENT: Alert(
-      "Unsupported Giraffe Configuration",
-      "Visit comma.ai/tg",
-      AlertStatus.normal, AlertSize.mid,
-      Priority.LOWER, VisualAlert.none, AudibleAlert.none, 0., 0., .2),
-  },
-
-  EventName.whitePandaUnsupported: {
-    ET.PERMANENT: Alert(
-      "White Panda No Longer Supported",
-      "Upgrade to comma two or black panda",
-      AlertStatus.normal, AlertSize.mid,
-      Priority.LOWER, VisualAlert.none, AudibleAlert.none, 0., 0., .2),
-    ET.NO_ENTRY: NoEntryAlert("Unsupported Hardware"),
-  },
-
   EventName.invalidLkasSetting: {
     ET.PERMANENT: Alert(
       "Stock LKAS is turned on",
diff --git a/selfdrive/debug/get_fingerprint.py b/selfdrive/debug/get_fingerprint.py
index 2695d457d1..6c38957be3 100755
--- a/selfdrive/debug/get_fingerprint.py
+++ b/selfdrive/debug/get_fingerprint.py
@@ -6,7 +6,6 @@
 # - connect to a Panda
 # - run selfdrive/boardd/boardd
 # - launching this script
-# - turn on the car in STOCK MODE (set giraffe switches properly).
 #   Note: it's very important that the car is in stock mode, in order to collect a complete fingerprint
 # - since some messages are published at low frequency, keep this script running for at least 30s,
 #   until all messages are received at least once
diff --git a/selfdrive/test/longitudinal_maneuvers/test_longitudinal.py b/selfdrive/test/longitudinal_maneuvers/test_longitudinal.py
index 6c57f5fc3f..7890a9ec4b 100755
--- a/selfdrive/test/longitudinal_maneuvers/test_longitudinal.py
+++ b/selfdrive/test/longitudinal_maneuvers/test_longitudinal.py
@@ -325,6 +325,7 @@ def setup_output():
 class LongitudinalControl(unittest.TestCase):
   @classmethod
   def setUpClass(cls):
+    os.environ['SKIP_FW_QUERY'] = "1"
     os.environ['NO_CAN_TIMEOUT'] = "1"
 
     setup_output()
diff --git a/selfdrive/test/process_replay/process_replay.py b/selfdrive/test/process_replay/process_replay.py
index 3b81cc8896..a88c59e7ba 100755
--- a/selfdrive/test/process_replay/process_replay.py
+++ b/selfdrive/test/process_replay/process_replay.py
@@ -75,10 +75,6 @@ class DumbSocket:
         # lists
         dat = messaging.new_message(s, 0)
 
-      # TODO: remove this after deprecated all hw without a relay
-      if s == "health":
-        dat.health.hwType = log.HealthData.HwType.uno
-
       self.data = dat.to_bytes()
 
   def receive(self, non_blocking=False):
diff --git a/selfdrive/test/process_replay/ref_commit b/selfdrive/test/process_replay/ref_commit
index 9f8f6c05ea..0866904338 100644
--- a/selfdrive/test/process_replay/ref_commit
+++ b/selfdrive/test/process_replay/ref_commit
@@ -1 +1 @@
-f863303a303348b27d624a1e301857ec0b432e17
\ No newline at end of file
+f863303a303348b27d624a1e301857ec0b432e17
diff --git a/selfdrive/test/test_models.py b/selfdrive/test/test_models.py
index 3a95136b52..b0c4723051 100755
--- a/selfdrive/test/test_models.py
+++ b/selfdrive/test/test_models.py
@@ -30,6 +30,12 @@ ignore_can_valid = [
   "TOYOTA AVALON 2016",
   "HONDA PILOT 2019 ELITE",
   "HYUNDAI SANTA FE LIMITED 2019",
+
+  # TODO: get new routes for these cars, current routes are from giraffe with different buses
+  "HONDA CR-V 2019 HYBRID",
+  "HONDA ACCORD 2018 SPORT 2T",
+  "HONDA INSIGHT 2019 TOURING",
+  "HONDA ACCORD 2018 HYBRID TOURING",
 ]
 
 @parameterized_class(('car_model'), [(car,) for car in all_known_cars()])
@@ -53,7 +59,6 @@ class TestCarModel(unittest.TestCase):
         if seg == 0:
           raise
 
-    has_relay = False
     can_msgs = []
     fingerprint = {i: dict() for i in range(3)}
     for msg in lr:
@@ -62,41 +67,38 @@ class TestCarModel(unittest.TestCase):
           if m.src < 128:
             fingerprint[m.src][m.address] = len(m.dat)
         can_msgs.append(msg)
-      elif msg.which() == "health":
-        has_relay = msg.health.hwType in [HwType.blackPanda, HwType.uno, HwType.dos]
     cls.can_msgs = sorted(can_msgs, key=lambda msg: msg.logMonoTime)
 
     CarInterface, CarController, CarState = interfaces[cls.car_model]
 
-    # TODO: test with relay and without
-    cls.car_params = CarInterface.get_params(cls.car_model, fingerprint, has_relay, [])
-    assert cls.car_params
+    cls.CP = CarInterface.get_params(cls.car_model, fingerprint, [])
+    assert cls.CP
 
-    cls.CI = CarInterface(cls.car_params, CarController, CarState)
+    cls.CI = CarInterface(cls.CP, CarController, CarState)
     assert cls.CI
 
   def test_car_params(self):
-    if self.car_params.dashcamOnly:
+    if self.CP.dashcamOnly:
       self.skipTest("no need to check carParams for dashcamOnly")
 
     # make sure car params are within a valid range
-    self.assertGreater(self.car_params.mass, 1)
-    self.assertGreater(self.car_params.steerRateCost, 1e-3)
+    self.assertGreater(self.CP.mass, 1)
+    self.assertGreater(self.CP.steerRateCost, 1e-3)
 
-    tuning = self.car_params.lateralTuning.which()
+    tuning = self.CP.lateralTuning.which()
     if tuning == 'pid':
-      self.assertTrue(len(self.car_params.lateralTuning.pid.kpV))
+      self.assertTrue(len(self.CP.lateralTuning.pid.kpV))
     elif tuning == 'lqr':
-      self.assertTrue(len(self.car_params.lateralTuning.lqr.a))
+      self.assertTrue(len(self.CP.lateralTuning.lqr.a))
     elif tuning == 'indi':
-      self.assertGreater(self.car_params.lateralTuning.indi.outerLoopGain, 1e-3)
+      self.assertGreater(self.CP.lateralTuning.indi.outerLoopGain, 1e-3)
 
-    self.assertTrue(self.car_params.enableCamera)
+    self.assertTrue(self.CP.enableCamera)
 
     # TODO: check safetyModel is in release panda build
     safety = libpandasafety_py.libpandasafety
-    set_status = safety.set_safety_hooks(self.car_params.safetyModel.raw, self.car_params.safetyParam)
-    self.assertEqual(0, set_status, f"failed to set safetyModel {self.car_params.safetyModel}")
+    set_status = safety.set_safety_hooks(self.CP.safetyModel.raw, self.CP.safetyParam)
+    self.assertEqual(0, set_status, f"failed to set safetyModel {self.CP.safetyModel}")
 
   def test_car_interface(self):
     # TODO: also check for checkusm and counter violations from can parser
@@ -115,8 +117,8 @@ class TestCarModel(unittest.TestCase):
 
   def test_radar_interface(self):
     os.environ['NO_RADAR_SLEEP'] = "1"
-    RadarInterface = importlib.import_module('selfdrive.car.%s.radar_interface' % self.car_params.carName).RadarInterface
-    RI = RadarInterface(self.car_params)
+    RadarInterface = importlib.import_module('selfdrive.car.%s.radar_interface' % self.CP.carName).RadarInterface
+    RI = RadarInterface(self.CP)
     assert RI
 
     error_cnt = 0
@@ -127,11 +129,11 @@ class TestCarModel(unittest.TestCase):
     self.assertLess(error_cnt, 20)
 
   def test_panda_safety_rx(self):
-    if self.car_params.dashcamOnly:
+    if self.CP.dashcamOnly:
       self.skipTest("no need to check panda safety for dashcamOnly")
 
     safety = libpandasafety_py.libpandasafety
-    set_status = safety.set_safety_hooks(self.car_params.safetyModel.raw, self.car_params.safetyParam)
+    set_status = safety.set_safety_hooks(self.CP.safetyModel.raw, self.CP.safetyParam)
     self.assertEqual(0, set_status)
 
     failed_addrs = Counter()
diff --git a/selfdrive/thermald/power_monitoring.py b/selfdrive/thermald/power_monitoring.py
index 76b9ad3b26..a6f2d4c4e9 100644
--- a/selfdrive/thermald/power_monitoring.py
+++ b/selfdrive/thermald/power_monitoring.py
@@ -9,7 +9,6 @@ from common.params import Params, put_nonblocking
 from common.hardware import TICI
 from selfdrive.swaglog import cloudlog
 
-PANDA_OUTPUT_VOLTAGE = 5.28
 CAR_VOLTAGE_LOW_PASS_K = 0.091 # LPF gain for 5s tau (dt/tau / (dt/tau + 1))
 
 # A C2 uses about 1W while idling, and 30h seens like a good shutoff for most cars
@@ -62,11 +61,6 @@ def _read_param(path, parser, default=0):
     return default
 
 
-def panda_current_to_actual_current(panda_current):
-  # From white/grey panda schematic
-  return (3.3 - (panda_current * 3.3 / 4096)) / 8.25
-
-
 class PowerMonitoring:
   def __init__(self):
     self.params = Params()
@@ -135,11 +129,6 @@ class PowerMonitoring:
           # If the battery is discharging, we can use this measurement
           # On C2: this is low by about 10-15%, probably mostly due to UNO draw not being factored in
           current_power = ((get_battery_voltage() / 1000000) * (get_battery_current() / 1000000))
-        elif (health.health.hwType in [log.HealthData.HwType.whitePanda, log.HealthData.HwType.greyPanda]) and (health.health.current > 1):
-          # If white/grey panda, use the integrated current measurements if the measurement is not 0
-          # If the measurement is 0, the current is 400mA or greater, and out of the measurement range of the panda
-          # This seems to be accurate to about 5%
-          current_power = (PANDA_OUTPUT_VOLTAGE * panda_current_to_actual_current(health.health.current))
         elif (self.next_pulsed_measurement_time is not None) and (self.next_pulsed_measurement_time <= now):
           # TODO: Figure out why this is off by a factor of 3/4???
           FUDGE_FACTOR = 1.33
diff --git a/selfdrive/thermald/tests/test_power_monitoring.py b/selfdrive/thermald/tests/test_power_monitoring.py
index af46e447e5..fe91dce8e3 100755
--- a/selfdrive/thermald/tests/test_power_monitoring.py
+++ b/selfdrive/thermald/tests/test_power_monitoring.py
@@ -18,8 +18,7 @@ def mock_sec_since_boot():
 with patch("common.realtime.sec_since_boot", new=mock_sec_since_boot):
   with patch("common.params.put_nonblocking", new=params.put):
     from selfdrive.thermald.power_monitoring import PowerMonitoring, CAR_BATTERY_CAPACITY_uWh, \
-                                                    PANDA_OUTPUT_VOLTAGE, CAR_CHARGING_RATE_W, \
-                                                    VBATT_PAUSE_CHARGING
+                                                    CAR_CHARGING_RATE_W, VBATT_PAUSE_CHARGING
 
 def actual_current_to_panda_current(actual_current):
   return max(int(((3.3 - (actual_current * 8.25)) * 4096) / 3.3), 0)
@@ -66,16 +65,6 @@ class TestPowerMonitoring(unittest.TestCase):
       pm.calculate(self.mock_health(True, hw_type))
     self.assertEqual(pm.get_power_used(), 0)
 
-  # Test to see that it integrates with white/grey panda while charging
-  @parameterized.expand([(log.HealthData.HwType.whitePanda,), (log.HealthData.HwType.greyPanda,)])
-  def test_offroad_integration_white(self, hw_type):
-    with pm_patch("get_battery_voltage", 4e6), pm_patch("get_battery_current", 1e5), pm_patch("get_battery_status", "Charging"):
-      pm = PowerMonitoring()
-      for _ in range(TEST_DURATION_S + 1):
-        pm.calculate(self.mock_health(False, hw_type, current=0.1))
-      expected_power_usage = ((TEST_DURATION_S/3600) * (0.1 * PANDA_OUTPUT_VOLTAGE) * 1e6)
-      self.assertLess(abs(pm.get_power_used() - expected_power_usage), 10)
-
   # Test to see that it integrates with discharging battery
   @parameterized.expand(ALL_PANDA_TYPES)
   def test_offroad_integration_discharging(self, hw_type):
diff --git a/selfdrive/thermald/thermald.py b/selfdrive/thermald/thermald.py
index 39e07c0dd7..47782c0de1 100755
--- a/selfdrive/thermald/thermald.py
+++ b/selfdrive/thermald/thermald.py
@@ -198,7 +198,6 @@ def thermald_thread():
   should_start_prev = False
   handle_fan = None
   is_uno = False
-  has_relay = False
 
   params = Params()
   pm = PowerMonitoring()
@@ -229,7 +228,6 @@ def thermald_thread():
       # Setup fan handler on first connect to panda
       if handle_fan is None and health.health.hwType != log.HealthData.HwType.unknown:
         is_uno = health.health.hwType == log.HealthData.HwType.uno
-        has_relay = health.health.hwType in [log.HealthData.HwType.blackPanda, log.HealthData.HwType.uno, log.HealthData.HwType.dos]
 
         if (not EON) or is_uno:
           cloudlog.info("Setting up UNO fan handler")
@@ -286,7 +284,7 @@ def thermald_thread():
     # since going onroad increases load and can make temps go over 107
     # We only do this if there is a relay that prevents the car from faulting
     is_offroad_for_5_min = (started_ts is None) and ((not started_seen) or (off_ts is None) or (sec_since_boot() - off_ts > 60 * 5))
-    if max_cpu_temp > 107. or bat_temp >= 63. or (has_relay and is_offroad_for_5_min and max_cpu_temp > 70.0):
+    if max_cpu_temp > 107. or bat_temp >= 63. or (is_offroad_for_5_min and max_cpu_temp > 70.0):
       # onroad not allowed
       thermal_status = ThermalStatus.danger
     elif max_comp_temp > 96.0 or bat_temp > 60.:
@@ -350,7 +348,6 @@ def thermald_thread():
 
     startup_conditions["not_uninstalling"] = not params.get("DoUninstall") == b"1"
     startup_conditions["accepted_terms"] = params.get("HasAcceptedTerms") == terms_version
-    completed_training = params.get("CompletedTrainingVersion") == training_version
 
     panda_signature = params.get("PandaFirmware")
     startup_conditions["fw_version_match"] = (panda_signature is None) or (panda_signature == FW_SIGNATURE)   # don't show alert is no panda is connected (None)
@@ -358,7 +355,8 @@ def thermald_thread():
 
     # with 2% left, we killall, otherwise the phone will take a long time to boot
     startup_conditions["free_space"] = msg.thermal.freeSpace > 0.02
-    startup_conditions["completed_training"] = completed_training or (current_branch in ['dashcam', 'dashcam-staging'])
+    startup_conditions["completed_training"] = params.get("CompletedTrainingVersion") == training_version or \
+                                               (current_branch in ['dashcam', 'dashcam-staging'])
     startup_conditions["not_driver_view"] = not params.get("IsDriverViewEnabled") == b"1"
     startup_conditions["not_taking_snapshot"] = not params.get("IsTakingSnapshot") == b"1"
     # if any CPU gets above 107 or the battery gets above 63, kill all processes
@@ -367,6 +365,9 @@ def thermald_thread():
     set_offroad_alert_if_changed("Offroad_TemperatureTooHigh", (not startup_conditions["device_temp_good"]))
     should_start = all(startup_conditions.values())
 
+    startup_conditions["hardware_supported"] = health is not None and health.health.hwType not in [log.HealthData.HwType.whitePanda, log.HealthData.HwType.greyPanda]
+    set_offroad_alert_if_changed("Offroad_HardwareUnsupported", not startup_conditions["hardware_supported"])
+
     if should_start:
       if not should_start_prev:
         params.delete("IsOffroad")
diff --git a/tools/carcontrols/debug_controls.py b/tools/carcontrols/debug_controls.py
index cdb5e3af87..2334e2576b 100755
--- a/tools/carcontrols/debug_controls.py
+++ b/tools/carcontrols/debug_controls.py
@@ -14,7 +14,6 @@ def steer_thread():
   poller = messaging.Poller()
 
   logcan = messaging.sub_sock('can')
-  health = messaging.sub_sock('health')
   joystick_sock = messaging.sub_sock('testJoystick', conflate=True, poller=poller)
 
   carstate = messaging.pub_sock('carState')
@@ -24,13 +23,11 @@ def steer_thread():
   button_1_last = 0
   enabled = False
 
-  # wait for health and CAN packets
-  hw_type = messaging.recv_one(health).health.hwType
-  has_relay = hw_type in [HwType.blackPanda, HwType.uno, HwType.dos]
+  # wait for CAN packets
   print("Waiting for CAN messages...")
   get_one_can(logcan)
 
-  CI, CP = get_car(logcan, sendcan, has_relay)
+  CI, CP = get_car(logcan, sendcan)
   Params().put("CarParams", CP.to_bytes())
 
   CC = car.CarControl.new_message()
diff --git a/tools/webcam/README.md b/tools/webcam/README.md
index c8def05d53..472b95177a 100644
--- a/tools/webcam/README.md
+++ b/tools/webcam/README.md
@@ -5,7 +5,7 @@ What's needed:
 - Python 3.8.2
 - GPU (recommended)
 - Two USB webcams, at least 720p and 78 degrees FOV (e.g. Logitech C920/C615)
-- [Car harness](https://comma.ai/shop/products/comma-car-harness) with black panda (or the outdated grey panda/giraffe combo) to connect to your car
+- [Car harness](https://comma.ai/shop/products/comma-car-harness) with black panda to connect to your car
 - [Panda paw](https://comma.ai/shop/products/panda-paw) (or USB-A to USB-A cable) to connect panda to your computer
 - Tape, Charger, ...
 That's it!