diff --git a/selfdrive/car/body/carcontroller.py b/selfdrive/car/body/carcontroller.py
index eebf6798a2..abc2b88f53 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/body/carcontroller.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/body/carcontroller.py
@@ -1,3 +1,4 @@
+import copy
 import numpy as np
 
 from opendbc.can.packer import CANPacker
@@ -75,7 +76,7 @@ class CarController(CarControllerBase):
     can_sends = []
     can_sends.append(bodycan.create_control(self.packer, torque_l, torque_r))
 
-    new_actuators = CC.actuators.as_builder()
+    new_actuators = copy.deepcopy(CC.actuators)
     new_actuators.accel = torque_l
     new_actuators.steer = torque_r
     new_actuators.steerOutputCan = torque_r
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/card.py b/selfdrive/car/card.py
index a12c9091ee..2066e65b29 100755
--- a/selfdrive/car/card.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/card.py
@@ -59,7 +59,7 @@ def can_comm_callbacks(logcan: messaging.SubSocket, sendcan: messaging.PubSocket
   return can_recv, can_send
 
 
-def convert_to_capnp(struct: structs.CarParams | structs.CarState) -> capnp.lib.capnp._DynamicStructBuilder:
+def convert_to_capnp(struct: structs.CarParams | structs.CarState | structs.CarControl.Actuators) -> capnp.lib.capnp._DynamicStructBuilder:
   struct_dict = dataclasses.asdict(struct)
 
   if isinstance(struct, structs.CarParams):
@@ -71,8 +71,10 @@ def convert_to_capnp(struct: structs.CarParams | structs.CarState) -> capnp.lib.
     struct_capnp.lateralTuning.init(which)
     lateralTuning_dict = dataclasses.asdict(getattr(struct.lateralTuning, which))
     setattr(struct_capnp.lateralTuning, which, lateralTuning_dict)
-  else:
+  elif isinstance(struct, structs.CarState):
     struct_capnp = car.CarState.new_message(**struct_dict)
+  else:
+    struct_capnp = car.CarControl.Actuators.new_message(**struct_dict)
 
   return struct_capnp
 
@@ -82,12 +84,14 @@ def convert_carControl(struct: capnp.lib.capnp._DynamicStructReader) -> structs.
   def remove_deprecated(s: dict) -> dict:
     return {k: v for k, v in s.items() if not k.endswith('DEPRECATED')}
 
-  for field, value in struct.to_dict().items():
-    if isinstance(value, dict):
-      name = field[0].upper() + field[1:]
-      struct[field] = getattr(structs.CarControl, name)(**remove_deprecated(value))
+  struct_dict = struct.to_dict()
+  struct_dataclass = structs.CarControl(**remove_deprecated({k: v for k, v in struct_dict.items() if not isinstance(k, dict)}))
+
+  struct_dataclass.actuators = structs.CarControl.Actuators(**remove_deprecated(struct_dict.get('actuators', {})))
+  struct_dataclass.cruiseControl = structs.CarControl.CruiseControl(**remove_deprecated(struct_dict.get('cruiseControl', {})))
+  struct_dataclass.hudControl = structs.CarControl.HUDControl(**remove_deprecated(struct_dict.get('hudControl', {})))
 
-  return structs.CarControl(**remove_deprecated(struct))
+  return struct_dataclass
 
 
 class Car:
@@ -223,7 +227,7 @@ class Car:
     # publish new carOutput
     co_send = messaging.new_message('carOutput')
     co_send.valid = self.sm.all_checks(['carControl'])
-    co_send.carOutput.actuatorsOutput = self.last_actuators_output
+    co_send.carOutput.actuatorsOutput = convert_to_capnp(self.last_actuators_output)
     self.pm.send('carOutput', co_send)
 
     # kick off controlsd step while we actuate the latest carControl packet
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/chrysler/carcontroller.py b/selfdrive/car/chrysler/carcontroller.py
index c194488de9..37f878855b 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/chrysler/carcontroller.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/chrysler/carcontroller.py
@@ -1,3 +1,4 @@
+import copy
 from opendbc.can.packer import CANPacker
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import DT_CTRL, apply_meas_steer_torque_limits
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.chrysler import chryslercan
@@ -76,7 +77,7 @@ class CarController(CarControllerBase):
 
     self.frame += 1
 
-    new_actuators = CC.actuators.as_builder()
+    new_actuators = copy.deepcopy(CC.actuators)
     new_actuators.steer = self.apply_steer_last / self.params.STEER_MAX
     new_actuators.steerOutputCan = self.apply_steer_last
 
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/ford/carcontroller.py b/selfdrive/car/ford/carcontroller.py
index 12e301c722..993c544b85 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/ford/carcontroller.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/ford/carcontroller.py
@@ -1,3 +1,4 @@
+import copy
 from opendbc.can.packer import CANPacker
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import apply_std_steer_angle_limits, structs
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.ford import fordcan
@@ -110,7 +111,7 @@ class CarController(CarControllerBase):
     self.steer_alert_last = steer_alert
     self.lead_distance_bars_last = hud_control.leadDistanceBars
 
-    new_actuators = actuators.as_builder()
+    new_actuators = copy.deepcopy(actuators)
     new_actuators.curvature = self.apply_curvature_last
 
     self.frame += 1
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/gm/carcontroller.py b/selfdrive/car/gm/carcontroller.py
index a33cf2a2a6..5d328367e6 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/gm/carcontroller.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/gm/carcontroller.py
@@ -1,3 +1,4 @@
+import copy
 from opendbc.can.packer import CANPacker
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import DT_CTRL, apply_driver_steer_torque_limits, structs
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.gm import gmcan
@@ -152,7 +153,7 @@ class CarController(CarControllerBase):
       if self.frame % 10 == 0:
         can_sends.append(gmcan.create_pscm_status(self.packer_pt, CanBus.CAMERA, CS.pscm_status))
 
-    new_actuators = actuators.as_builder()
+    new_actuators = copy.deepcopy(actuators)
     new_actuators.steer = self.apply_steer_last / self.params.STEER_MAX
     new_actuators.steerOutputCan = self.apply_steer_last
     new_actuators.gas = self.apply_gas
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/honda/carcontroller.py b/selfdrive/car/honda/carcontroller.py
index e86a0aeb82..7901c061a7 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/honda/carcontroller.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/honda/carcontroller.py
@@ -1,3 +1,4 @@
+import copy
 from collections import namedtuple
 
 from opendbc.can.packer import CANPacker
@@ -241,7 +242,7 @@ class CarController(CarControllerBase):
         self.speed = pcm_speed
         self.gas = pcm_accel / self.params.NIDEC_GAS_MAX
 
-    new_actuators = actuators.as_builder()
+    new_actuators = copy.deepcopy(actuators)
     new_actuators.speed = self.speed
     new_actuators.accel = self.accel
     new_actuators.gas = self.gas
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/hyundai/carcontroller.py b/selfdrive/car/hyundai/carcontroller.py
index 5169247ca2..4101d25776 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/hyundai/carcontroller.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/hyundai/carcontroller.py
@@ -1,3 +1,4 @@
+import copy
 from opendbc.can.packer import CANPacker
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import DT_CTRL, apply_driver_steer_torque_limits, common_fault_avoidance, make_tester_present_msg, structs
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.conversions import Conversions as CV
@@ -161,7 +162,7 @@ class CarController(CarControllerBase):
       if self.frame % 50 == 0 and self.CP.openpilotLongitudinalControl:
         can_sends.append(hyundaican.create_frt_radar_opt(self.packer))
 
-    new_actuators = actuators.as_builder()
+    new_actuators = copy.deepcopy(actuators)
     new_actuators.steer = apply_steer / self.params.STEER_MAX
     new_actuators.steerOutputCan = apply_steer
     new_actuators.accel = accel
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/mazda/carcontroller.py b/selfdrive/car/mazda/carcontroller.py
index 13e7f8aa3d..9b801924ad 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/mazda/carcontroller.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/mazda/carcontroller.py
@@ -1,3 +1,4 @@
+import copy
 from opendbc.can.packer import CANPacker
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import apply_driver_steer_torque_limits, structs
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.interfaces import CarControllerBase
@@ -56,7 +57,7 @@ class CarController(CarControllerBase):
     can_sends.append(mazdacan.create_steering_control(self.packer, self.CP,
                                                       self.frame, apply_steer, CS.cam_lkas))
 
-    new_actuators = CC.actuators.as_builder()
+    new_actuators = copy.deepcopy(CC.actuators)
     new_actuators.steer = apply_steer / CarControllerParams.STEER_MAX
     new_actuators.steerOutputCan = apply_steer
 
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/mock/carcontroller.py b/selfdrive/car/mock/carcontroller.py
index 0cd37c0369..b1f541f25d 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/mock/carcontroller.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/mock/carcontroller.py
@@ -1,5 +1,6 @@
+import copy
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.interfaces import CarControllerBase
 
 class CarController(CarControllerBase):
   def update(self, CC, CS, now_nanos):
-    return CC.actuators.as_builder(), []
+    return copy.deepcopy(CC.actuators), []
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/nissan/carcontroller.py b/selfdrive/car/nissan/carcontroller.py
index ec9dc6e5c8..c127a5b181 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/nissan/carcontroller.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/nissan/carcontroller.py
@@ -1,3 +1,4 @@
+import copy
 from opendbc.can.packer import CANPacker
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import apply_std_steer_angle_limits, structs
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.interfaces import CarControllerBase
@@ -73,7 +74,7 @@ class CarController(CarControllerBase):
           self.packer, CS.lkas_hud_info_msg, steer_hud_alert
         ))
 
-    new_actuators = actuators.as_builder()
+    new_actuators = copy.deepcopy(actuators)
     new_actuators.steeringAngleDeg = apply_angle
 
     self.frame += 1
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/subaru/carcontroller.py b/selfdrive/car/subaru/carcontroller.py
index c8c2e7417b..493a754962 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/subaru/carcontroller.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/subaru/carcontroller.py
@@ -1,3 +1,4 @@
+import copy
 from opendbc.can.packer import CANPacker
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import apply_driver_steer_torque_limits, common_fault_avoidance, make_tester_present_msg
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.helpers import clip, interp
@@ -135,7 +136,7 @@ class CarController(CarControllerBase):
         if self.frame % 2 == 0:
           can_sends.append(subarucan.create_es_static_2(self.packer))
 
-    new_actuators = actuators.as_builder()
+    new_actuators = copy.deepcopy(actuators)
     new_actuators.steer = self.apply_steer_last / self.p.STEER_MAX
     new_actuators.steerOutputCan = self.apply_steer_last
 
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/tesla/carcontroller.py b/selfdrive/car/tesla/carcontroller.py
index ed81fd0c50..ded922ed08 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/tesla/carcontroller.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/tesla/carcontroller.py
@@ -1,3 +1,4 @@
+import copy
 from opendbc.can.packer import CANPacker
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import apply_std_steer_angle_limits
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.helpers import clip
@@ -59,7 +60,7 @@ class CarController(CarControllerBase):
 
     # TODO: HUD control
 
-    new_actuators = actuators.as_builder()
+    new_actuators = copy.deepcopy(actuators)
     new_actuators.steeringAngleDeg = self.apply_angle_last
 
     self.frame += 1
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/toyota/carcontroller.py b/selfdrive/car/toyota/carcontroller.py
index 51fa3e748c..b705c5dffb 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/toyota/carcontroller.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/toyota/carcontroller.py
@@ -1,3 +1,4 @@
+import copy
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import apply_meas_steer_torque_limits, apply_std_steer_angle_limits, common_fault_avoidance, make_tester_present_msg, structs
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.can_definitions import CanData
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.helpers import clip
@@ -167,7 +168,7 @@ class CarController(CarControllerBase):
     if self.frame % 20 == 0 and self.CP.flags & ToyotaFlags.DISABLE_RADAR.value:
       can_sends.append(make_tester_present_msg(0x750, 0, 0xF))
 
-    new_actuators = actuators.as_builder()
+    new_actuators = copy.deepcopy(actuators)
     new_actuators.steer = apply_steer / self.params.STEER_MAX
     new_actuators.steerOutputCan = apply_steer
     new_actuators.steeringAngleDeg = self.last_angle
diff --git a/selfdrive/car/volkswagen/carcontroller.py b/selfdrive/car/volkswagen/carcontroller.py
index e782f14985..3086b35931 100644
--- a/selfdrive/car/volkswagen/carcontroller.py
+++ b/selfdrive/car/volkswagen/carcontroller.py
@@ -1,3 +1,4 @@
+import copy
 from opendbc.can.packer import CANPacker
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car import DT_CTRL, apply_driver_steer_torque_limits, structs
 from openpilot.selfdrive.car.conversions import Conversions as CV
@@ -109,7 +110,7 @@ class CarController(CarControllerBase):
       can_sends.append(self.CCS.create_acc_buttons_control(self.packer_pt, self.ext_bus, CS.gra_stock_values,
                                                            cancel=CC.cruiseControl.cancel, resume=CC.cruiseControl.resume))
 
-    new_actuators = actuators.as_builder()
+    new_actuators = copy.deepcopy(actuators)
     new_actuators.steer = self.apply_steer_last / self.CCP.STEER_MAX
     new_actuators.steerOutputCan = self.apply_steer_last